from an user and they could not, did not?
Are there really no logs 100% safe VPNs and if so, why are people using Tor and not just switch if they are really that secure?
We can’t name a specific provider in this sub, but yes, there were a couple of providers where either police raid or court case proved they have no logs to share.
However, each of those only apply for the specific server being raided during the specific period, there’s no guarantee the operator didn’t fuck up later or maybe deliberately change their logging policy because of new management.
That’s partly why Tor is a thing, because you don’t have to trust one party with all of your traffic, one naughty operator isn’t enough to uncover you, even multiple naughty operators will only get some of your traffic because each domain would be routed differently.
The other reason is the Tor Browser. A VPN alone doesn’t stop trackers, notice how sites doesn’t instantly forget you just because you are using a VPN. Cookies and fingerprinting can be used to track users regardless of their IP, so you’ll need a browser that actively prevent that, and adopt stringent measures depending on who you’re trying to hide from.
Logs are hardly relevant when it comes to police matters.
Lets say you used a VPN to install a backdoor on reddit.com. Reddit finds out this happened and traces it back to a no-logs VPN. The VPN legitimately can’t say who did it. Do you think Reddit will just leave it at that?
No. Reddit reports it to the FBI. The FBI gets a court order to have the VPN monitor all traffic trying to make use of the backdoor. They catch you red-handed. You go to jail. No logs needed!
What VPNs really mean by ‘no logs’ is that they don’t sell your data to 3rd-parties. They could just say that, but I guess they benefit from the misconception that it provides more protection than it does.
Happens all the time if you’re a carrier – it’s called CALEA. You need a court order, but yes, it does.
VPNs are not safe from the police at all. Do not use VPNs to do crime.
Third party auditors check things like this and good VPN providers will show their results and findings. If you only keep logs for a day, chances are you won’t have them when LEOs show up, however, usung their built in emails is another story.
Running everything in RAM as some providers do. They reboot on a schedule and also “as needed”.
There have been instances where VPN providers were asked to hand over logs or data, but it all depends on the provider’s logging policy. Some claim “no-logs” policies, but these claims can sometimes be questionable. The difference with Tor is that it’s designed to route your traffic through multiple nodes, making it more anonymous, whereas some VPNs still rely on a central server.
If they are asking for that, they already have dirt on you. Most devices are so connected now the VPN logs are inconsequential. They can summons all your social media providers, email providers, etc for IP logs. The VPN provider will likely have your email address or payment information they can give law enforcement.
Don’t do it. Using a VPN is the equivalent of putting on a ski mask and then walking into a bank to rob it. But the camera outside caught your license plate number and your phone pinged in that location at the time. You’re still likely to get busted even though you wore a ski mask.
So just don’t do it. lol.
Cookie tracking you can avoid with in incognito or similar.
Hold on though what if the vpn is based in sweden for example that’d mean they can’t touch this dum-dumdumdum can’t touch this:man_dancing:
VPN providers are not carriers and that doesn’t apply. They are an intermediary service. Definitions matter.
Hypothetically, what do criminals use to commit crime? Such as selling drugs online etc?
A third party audit that confirms no logs are being stored does not assure that your traffic is non-attributable. A VPN does not anonymize your traffic sufficiently to be protected against the state.
No logs Vs zero logs is an important distinction.
Zero logs really means they are not logging anything
Most no logs vpn providers are talking about not logging your IP and connections. But they could still be logging, your device meta data, e.g. timezone, locale settings, operating system, hardware information… Everything needed to generate a very unique fingerprint that can be used to determine if your device accessed another service that does have your information.
Someone else said using a VPN is like putting on a ski mask to rob a bank, forgetting about the cameras outside. I’d go one further. Using a VPN is like robbing a bank using a one of a kind ski mask, limited edition fire arm and a custom car with the instructions you give to the teller written on the last three Macdonald’s receipts you got.
Depends on what you did. I don’t know why so many people think that a company being based elsewhere acts as some kind of magic shield. That’s not how the world works.
Sure, if your biggest crime is downloading some torrents, Sweden probably has your back. But installing a backdoor on Reddit is a serious crime under Swedish law too.
There’s a reason why real criminals end up fleeing to obscure countries. They don’t hang out in Sweden or Switzerland.
I said we did it – we are both a VPN provider and carrier.
The reality is that they do it from non-Western developing countries. This places them beyond the reach of effective law enforcement. If you commit crimes online from a Western country, you should plan on being caught and imprisoned at some point, much of what is necessary to attribute criminal activity online is a matter of time and effort.
That said, botnets of compromised home routers are pretty popular among the criminal set these days.
A little outside the scope of the question but yes you are correct. With fingerprinting and all of the other ways they can correlate information nowadays, it’s extremely hard to have a sense of complete privacy in the internet.